Curse

uigrad · Jun 23, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

You're a fool to try this.

For every rich ally that you get to do this (let's call you disruptionists), there will be 10 speculators watching the markets, attempting to keep the prices steady. You might be able to get black dye down to 2k if you flooded the market, but it would only stay that way for about 5-10 minutes. People like me are constantly checking prices. If I find black dye at 2k, I'll start buying as fast as I can until I either:

A) I run out of cash,
or
B) the price reaches 3200.

Likewise, I have very large stashes of silk and scales in my bank. In the past, I've had large quantities of parchment, steel, or leather. In any case, these stashes have just been sitting there, waiting for the market to spike. I acquired them from the NPC trader some time back, when the price was abnormally low. Once that market does spike, I'll finally sell them off and make a profit. It should be no surprise to you that there are hundreds of other players just like me, who watch the NPC traders closely, hoping to skim a few dimes off here and there.

So, the day you and your disruptionist friends buy lots of silk, I, and all of my hidden speculator "friends" out there will sell our silk, to equalize out your disruption. (Personally, I really hope this happens

) So, you'll be stuck with a large amount of silk in your bank, but you'll have bought it at normal market prices (in contrast to me, who bought at extremely low prices Sunday morning, 6/19 at 7:15 am)

No matter how you look at it, you lose.

---------------------------
I remember hearing a story about someone who tried to corner the silver market. Basically, he bought and bought until there was a national shortage. Then he slowly sold it back, to make a profit. This would be impossible to do in Guild Wars, because most of the trading is done player to player, not through the NPCs. So, there is no way to completely corner a given market.

EmperorTippy · Jun 23, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

Please do tell. I'm in Droknar's with under 4 platinum, could use some cash and don't want to play Sim Flea Market or Insider Trading Wars anymore.

In all seriousness, at least you're trying to do something. I don't think this particular plan will work, but kudos for the effort.

Thank you. Heres my advice buy low sell high works every time. I can make 10-20K in about 5 miniutes of actualy game time. I might by something and sell it to days later for 10K more but actuall time I spent was only about 5 miniutes.

Forscience · Jun 23, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Sounds like a party. Do it with runes though, not easily salvagable materials, and do it soon before A-net allows ppl to unlock all the runes they want doing PvP. If you get enough consenting millionare's you can control anything irl or virtual. Good Luck.

Dazzler · Jun 23, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forscience

Sounds like a party. Do it with runes though, not easily salvagable materials, and do it soon before A-net allows ppl to unlock all the runes they want doing PvP. If you get enough consenting millionare's you can control anything irl or virtual. Good Luck.

nonsense. there is a ton of ppl sitting on sup vigor runes because the prices have fallen so much on them. If you were to corner the market, all of a sudden these people would pull out their inventory and sell it, dropping the price and destroying the value of your investment.

EmperorTippy · Jun 23, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by uigrad

You're a fool to try this.

For every rich ally that you get to do this (let's call you disruptionists), there will be 10 speculators watching the markets, attempting to keep the prices steady. You might be able to get black dye down to 2k if you flooded the market, but it would only stay that way for about 5-10 minutes. People like me are constantly checking prices. If I find black dye at 2k, I'll start buying as fast as I can until I either:

A) I run out of cash,
or
B) the price reaches 3200.

Likewise, I have very large stashes of silk and scales in my bank. In the past, I've had large quantities of parchment, steel, or leather. In any case, these stashes have just been sitting there, waiting for the market to spike. I acquired them from the NPC trader some time back, when the price was abnormally low. Once that market does spike, I'll finally sell them off and make a profit. It should be no surprise to you that there are hundreds of other players just like me, who watch the NPC traders closely, hoping to skim a few dimes off here and there.

So, the day you and your disruptionist friends buy lots of silk, I, and all of my hidden speculator "friends" out there will sell our silk, to equalize out your disruption. (Personally, I really hope this happens

) So, you'll be stuck with a large amount of silk in your bank, but you'll have bought it at normal market prices (in contrast to me, who bought at extremely low prices Sunday morning, 6/19 at 7:15 am)

No matter how you look at it, you lose.

---------------------------
I remember hearing a story about someone who tried to corner the silver market. Basically, he bought and bought until there was a national shortage. Then he slowly sold it back, to make a profit. This would be impossible to do in Guild Wars, because most of the trading is done player to player, not through the NPCs. So, there is no way to completely corner a given market.

I know that some people would make money but for every person who does what you do (I do the same thing though) There are 100 people who don't.

As for peoples above arguments that I couldn't buy taht much cause it would raise prices what makes you think that we don't already have the items taht we are going to flood the market with.

I no that there is no way to compleatly corner a given market. I don't want to corner the market I want to cause prices on items to be so random that noone will buy them for fear of losing massive amount of money later. People don't look to the long term view were buying at these rock bottom prices could make them money when the market stabilizes. They fear the loss of their gold.

For the post considering the buying on magins in the 1920's I know that you can't do this in Gw. This is why this crash won't be as effective and why it has to be carfully planned and engienered for maximum effect.

EmperorTippy · Jun 23, 2005, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzler

nonsense. there is a ton of ppl sitting on sup vigor runes because the prices have fallen so much on them. If you were to corner the market, all of a sudden these people would pull out their inventory and sell it, dropping the price and destroying the value of your investment.

You all don't seem to realize that we don't want to make money. We want to reset the ecomony to a more manigable level i.e superior vigiors comon selling price is 20K not 80K. There will still be very many very wealthy people but areyou willing to risk your hard earned gold betting that we arn't going to tank the item that you invest in? OR you do nothing at all this is no problem as your gold isn't being added to the market sitting in storage.

Cap'n Hoek · Jun 23, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzler

It's like trying to accelerate your rocket ship to the speed of light. It's just not possible.

Yeah, don't tell Captain Kirk that!

Dreamsmith · Jun 23, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

We want to reset the ecomony to a more manigable level i.e superior vigiors comon selling price is 20K not 80K.

If you buy up the supply of something, the price the trader will give for that item will go up. More people will sell that item to the trader to make money. Thus, through the medium of the trader, you'll just be handing out money: you give the money to the trader, the trader gives it to the people resupplying him with what you bought out. Now they'll have more money to spend on things they want, so prices for things that really are in demand will go up. Thus, this isn't going to make superior vigor runes go from 80K to 20K, but it could make them go to 100K.

You're basically telling everyone with lots of money to, through the medium of the trader, distribute it to people who don't. This will cause inflation, not deflation.

If you want to fight inflation, horde your gold, and sell lots of runes to the rune trader. You can make a far bigger impact on the price of expensive runes by farming and selling them. Increase the supply, and the price will drop.

Ba Ne · Jun 23, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

Thank you. Heres my advice buy low sell high works every time. I can make 10-20K in about 5 miniutes of actualy game time. I might by something and sell it to days later for 10K more but actuall time I spent was only about 5 miniutes.

The problem is: I don't want to do that and quite frankly don't think I should have to. I didn't buy a stock market sim or Rune Tycoon, I bought Guild Wars and want to play Guild Wars.

Unfortunately it's not possible to generate sufficient income playing Guild Wars. If I wanted to buy my 15k platemail, which I do, I would have to play 24 hours a day for a month to generate 75k just playing Guild Wars. Ridiculous. Unless we want to play Rune Tycoon there isn't anything we can do as players to remedy the situation except grind our life away. Which happens to be the exact opposite of what ANet wants us to do. Imagine that.

The effort:reward ratio is entirely out of proportion and only ANet can fix it.

EmperorTippy · Jun 23, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

If you buy up the supply of something, the price the trader will give for that item will go up. More people will sell that item to the trader to make money. Thus, through the medium of the trader, you'll just be handing out money: you give the money to the trader, the trader gives it to the people resupplying him with what you bought out. Now they'll have more money to spend on things they want, so prices for things that really are in demand will go up. Thus, this isn't going to make superior vigor runes go from 80K to 20K, but it could make them go to 100K.

You're basically telling everyone with lots of money to, through the medium of the trader, distribute it to people who don't. This will cause inflation, not deflation.

If you want to fight inflation, horde your gold, and sell lots of runes to the rune trader. You can make a far bigger impact on the price of expensive runes by farming and selling them. Increase the supply, and the price will drop.

Who says that we don't already have a couple hundred vigiors to flood the market with? the point is to crash the prices on many items in the right sequence to bring about a fear that what ever commidies that you have be they shards or sup. vigiors or gold max damage storm bows will be crushed in they market by our selling these items at such low prices as to force you to sell your item for a compeating price or to hold it. If you hold it it will most likely take a couple of weeks for the price to raise to the level were you would consider selling again. If you sold at a competive price then this leads to a cascading trend accross the board on this item causing a lower price for the item. Reducing the price causes deflation.

Dazzler · Jun 23, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Except that will not happen.

You are correct that people that have a current inventory will pull back and not sell at the low price. But there are also lots of people sitting on a ton of money. If you flood the market with sup vigor runes, someone else will see the cheap price and buy all the inventory until the price stabalizes at what it was before you started. They then wait for it to rise a bit, then start trickling it back out into the market for a huge windfall.

Aug · Jun 23, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

the point is to crash the prices on many items in the right sequence to bring about a fear that what ever commidies that you have be they shards or sup. vigiors or gold max damage storm bows will be crushed in they market by our selling these items at such low prices as to force you to sell your item for a compeating price or to hold it.

Won't ever work for items controlled by Traders. There are hundreds of thousands of people that play this game. Even if every person that reads these forums bought in on your plan, it wouldn't work.

As for weapons and mods and stuff... you won't actually be removing any money from the system. You'll just be trading it around. You'll sell low, and buy high. How do you know you won't just be selling to someone you just bought from? Maybe you could avoid those who you directly made deals with... but the # of people you'd have to get to agree to do this, you'd never be able to track all of those transactions and ensure that you aren't selling to your supplier at a much reduced rate.

Quote:

If you hold it it will most likely take a couple of weeks for the price to raise to the level were you would consider selling again. If you sold at a competive price then this leads to a cascading trend accross the board on this item causing a lower price for the item. Reducing the price causes deflation.

A couple weeks? How many people do you think are playing this game? 100? Give me a break. You'll buy up all the X in a day, and the prices will be right back to where they were in under a week. I guarantee it.

You will cause price fluctuations for such limited periods of time that you might as well not have bothered.

You will be proving the underlying theory of trickle down economics, however.

The only way to have any meaningful impact on the price of goods would be to destroy gold. But your plan only succeeds in destroying (or redistributing) your gold. I don't see any way for you to acquire enough gold and destroy it to make any meaningful impact. And redistribution will likely only further increase the price of all goods across the board.

Evan montegarde · Jun 23, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

The problem with Guild Wars, and any online RPG where money is unlimited, is that gold loses value fast. Best example is of course Diablo 2, where Stone of Jordan took over the economy. In Runescape, rune items ran the economy because they were, although rare, easy to make if you'd put tons of time into the game. In Guild Wars, gold is rather worthless in small amounts. ANet has attempted to fix this by basically stopping all high gold drops, and making rare weapons very hard to get, but they haven't really succeeded so far.

EmperorTippy · Jun 23, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

Won't ever work for items controlled by Traders. There are hundreds of thousands of people that play this game. Even if every person that reads these forums bought in on your plan, it wouldn't work.

As for weapons and mods and stuff... you won't actually be removing any money from the system. You'll just be trading it around. You'll sell low, and buy high. How do you know you won't just be selling to someone you just bought from? Maybe you could avoid those who you directly made deals with... but the # of people you'd have to get to agree to do this, you'd never be able to track all of those transactions and ensure that you aren't selling to your supplier at a much reduced rate.

A couple weeks? How many people do you think are playing this game? 100? Give me a break. You'll buy up all the X in a day, and the prices will be right back to where they were in under a week. I guarantee it.

You will cause price fluctuations for such limited periods of time that you might as well not have bothered.

You will be proving the underlying theory of trickle down economics, however.

The only way to have any meaningful impact on the price of goods would be to destroy gold. But your plan only succeeds in destroying (or redistributing) your gold. I don't see any way for you to acquire enough gold and destroy it to make any meaningful impact. And redistribution will likely only further increase the price of all goods across the board.

We have the items and are only waiting for me to get my fissure armor and someone else to buy something that he wants and we will ruin the market. So far we have 22million gold at our disposal plus more superior vigiors and absorbtions than you would no what to do with. We have been planning this for 2 weeks so far and since I posted this we have got 3 new members adding 3 million gold to the pot.

The point of this is to crash the market on commidity items be they runes, rare gold weapons, mods, crafting materials or the like. If we sell in a few big blocks 1 then the other later what it does is lowers the price of the vigiors and keeps them low. Say you buy 20 vigiors cheap how do you no that the price will come back or will it continue to plumett. This Fear of being screwed in that your item becomes worthless causes people to stop buying items for fear that we will ruin the market. Prices decrease with less buyers.

To sell you have to match their prices or hold your items. If you hold them then inflation is lowered temporarly because of the lack of the item to buy. If you match the sellers price then you can start a trend in people thinking that this is going to become the norm price so they sell before prices are pushed lower.

And we have the ability to keep superior vigiors cheap for about a week in a half on both the Europe and American servers. Were working on korea but we don't have much hope.

We don't buy the items we already have them and are steadly getting more. So no problems of selling back to the guy that you just bought from.

Ollj · Jun 23, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Remembers me when the "Neocron" economy got screwed up by introducing a new market feature.
The money of some people simply grew to random numbers with 12 digits within 3 Days.

Divinitys Creature · Jun 23, 2005, 10:51 PM // 22:51

This is how you can stabilise the economy. Convince people that no weapon is worth over 100k.

Aug · Jun 23, 2005, 11:12 PM // 23:12

We'll see. I don't think you have a monopoly on any commodity. And you need a monopoly to impact the prices. There's simply too many people playing. 22M is a drop in the bucket, on a global scale.

hydrak · Jun 23, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

black dye that cost 2K not 6K.

How are you going to do this? Do you have 1xxxxxx black dyes to sell to the dye trader?

stumpy · Jun 23, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

We have the items and are only waiting for me to get my fissure armor and someone else to buy something that he wants and we will ruin the market. So far we have 22million gold at our disposal plus more superior vigiors and absorbtions than you would no what to do with. We have been planning this for 2 weeks so far and since I posted this we have got 3 new members adding 3 million gold to the pot.

The point of this is to crash the market on commidity items be they runes, rare gold weapons, mods, crafting materials or the like. If we sell in a few big blocks 1 then the other later what it does is lowers the price of the vigiors and keeps them low. Say you buy 20 vigiors cheap how do you no that the price will come back or will it continue to plumett. This Fear of being screwed in that your item becomes worthless causes people to stop buying items for fear that we will ruin the market. Prices decrease with less buyers.

Quite frankly ... money isn't an issue in guildwars, your intuitions are correct but you will need more money than 22 million. With 22 million you could maybe cause an impact of 25 gold item for 1 - 2 weeks tops by the end the market would have refilled its resource and your items now are worth less than you paid.

It can work ... but your sacrificing your money to do this and quite frankly you would need a sustainability and marketing plan to be anything other than a one shot wonder (which by the way people wont even look twice at) ...

You can count your azz that 'GAMERS' aren't the only ones watching the economy. Anet is too. And when they see this within days your commodity will be nerfed and worth less in the end. But as your pattern grows ... Anet will likely follow it, track it, and base its decision on whether or not to nerf it. In the end they could and laugh because now they took a chunk of your money away. Without sustainability you'll never be able to compete with the actual game. Please keep in mind that your not the only one who has done this, or tried to, and that they are likely prepard for this. Aside from that ... I wish you good luck, because you found a new aspect of the game to toy with, and in your original post i quote ... this is just for fun .... so everyone else keep that in mind before you respond to him. If I had a million yet I would join ya. If I get there I'll let ya know. Money comes and goes but fun ... is well ... priceless.

The One True Mango · Jun 23, 2005, 11:52 PM // 23:52

If you want to crash the market, you have to do it in a localized, small area. Get about 100 people, and simultaneously buy all of whatever in ascalon city. Newbs (like me) only have access to one set of traders- those in Ascalon City. If you drive up the prices there, none of the newbs can buy anything, and they get the impression of a much more frugal market. They learn to save, and then when they get out into other areas, they're richer than everybody else but have nothing, and aren't buying dyes because they can't afford to waste their gold on appearances, and the newbs end up stabilizing the economy.